From: scimon	Date: March 18th, 2008 02:05 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Personally I hate the Mac vs PC debate as it completes ignores me. I like my Linux boxes. I'm sure I'd like a Mac... for a while. I like to tinker and the tinker potential seems a little repressed.

Windows users are of course masochists, and they feel they deserve everything they get.

	From: theweaselking	Date: March 18th, 2008 02:44 pm (UTC)		(Link)

What, a wide software selection, support for our hardware, seamless interoperability, and all the good games?

Absolutely. Windows users deserve *everything* they get.

(Hate macs. Hate macs SO MUCH. They're reasonable toy machines, but they're really fucking expensive and they *do not* work reasonably in an office environment speaking to office applications. Kill! Kill!

But no, I'm not bitter or anything. Linux machines are my favourite servers and they make acceptable desktops for power users, but until they can actually run the cool stuff and handle things like wireless and multi-head monitors truly seamlessly, they're still not going to catch on big.)

	From: scimon	Date: March 18th, 2008 02:51 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I've not used a Mac enough to really have any thoughts. I've tried to help out friends with Mac issues and got a bit irate.

I do have a Windows box, running XP, that I keep for playing games. And because polli wouldn't let me install Linux on it.

But at work I've got my dual screen Linux box (setting up the dual screen with the nvidia drivers wasn't too bad) and at home I've got my laptop... OK getting the wireless working was a bit of a pig. Ubuntu can do wirless really nicely but the drivers Urrrgh that was a pain in the butt.

I start my new job in just over a week, apparently I'm being given a blank PC and I get to install what I like. Joy!

	From: theweaselking	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:12 pm (UTC)		(Link)

See, that's my point exactly. "Not too bad" and "a pain in the butt" are not words I want to hear about something as simple as multi-heading and wireless.

For application compatibility reasons, my work laptop is XP Pro. For gaming reasons, my home desktop is XP Home. All my servers are Linux, and my *other* laptop runs Ubuntu 7.10, but Linux on a desktop machine is still not seamless enough to get any kind of wide uptake.

	From: scimon	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:27 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I totally understand your point. Except I don't acutally setting up wireless in XP is any easier than in Ubuntu. Except of course for the fact that your XP machine will come with the drivers for the wireless card preinstalled.

And....

And I was halfway though typing that in when the USB ports at the back of this box appaered to decide not to work....

I probably had a point but the irony of the situation kind of defeats it.

	From: theweaselking	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Uh, double-click wireless driver install EXE. Maybe reboot. Select the wireless network, put in the network key, poof, magic wireless internet.

(and getting the installer exe is always really easy, even if you don't have the disk AND it's not one that XP carries drivers for inherently)

Versus fiddling with NDISWrapper? XP is totally easier. Ubuntu's getting there, but it's not there yet.

	From: scimon	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:38 pm (UTC)		(Link)

That's my point. It's not the actual wirless connection that's any harder it's the drivers. I'm not using NDISWrapper on my laptop as I found the drivers of the card (eventually). And it's all lovely.

	From: theweaselking	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Ah. When I say "Setting up a wireless connection", I mean "taking the computer from the fresh install state and making the wireless card receive lovely packets".

That's like saying dual-monitoring is easy on Ubuntu because, after you've gone in and hand-edited all the X config files appropriately, it's really easy to swap back and forth. No, that's *using* it, but it's still a royal pain in the ass to set up.

	From: scimon	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:45 pm (UTC)		(Link)

With dual heading the trick it to install the nvidia drivers then run up the nvidia settings tool GUI interface and push some buttons.

Worked for me. Pretty much the same as if it was a clean install on Windows.

But I do see what you're saying. Don't get me wrong. I was merely making the point that it is getting easier.

	From: ringsnake	Date: March 18th, 2008 03:49 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Mac users irrational? NO!

	From: jonnynexus	Date: March 18th, 2008 04:06 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I would say that given how expensive Macs are, his decision was a rational one, but then I'd be conceding that they might be a bit expensive, so I won't.

:)

	From: jonhodgson	Date: March 18th, 2008 04:11 pm (UTC)		(Link)

They aren't expensive! Look how [i]beautiful[/i] they are! Specially if you're putting your Mac purchases against tax... :)

	From: jonhodgson	Date: March 18th, 2008 04:12 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Once again I win with BB tags in LJ!

	From: ffutures	Date: March 18th, 2008 04:17 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I'd be terrified of falling on it because the bugger's so thin it'd probably cut your head off. Otherwise sod the computer, save yourself!

From: evilref	Date: March 18th, 2008 08:18 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Since I'm typing this on a sub-laptop running FreeBSD 6.2 and connecting to the wireless network in my hotel, I think I can claim detachment in the above debate.

First and foremost I want a computer to work. Other than that I want it to be cheap, and if it's a server (on all the time) or a laptop (powered by batteries, and burning a hole in my lap) I want it to use as little power as possible.

At the moment I"m toying with an ARM-powered box -- like the Iyonix does, for example -- which could probably be made into a solar-powered PC.